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How to spot a vanity credential

Duncan

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Dec 06, 2011 12:44

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There's a PDF of the certificate on the website!
http://executive.mit.edu/executivecertificates/management/?cid=tw_mlec_nov11
There's a PDF of the certificate on the website!
http://executive.mit.edu/executivecertificates/management/?cid=tw_mlec_nov11

georgep

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Dec 07, 2011 02:34

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Duncan,
I thought it is a great 2-5 days exec programme!
Being a techie, I liked this ..

http://executive.mit.edu/openenrollment/program/managing_technical_professionals_and_organizations/24

Is it not worth $3000? MIT brand..
Duncan,
I thought it is a great 2-5 days exec programme!
Being a techie, I liked this ..

http://executive.mit.edu/openenrollment/program/managing_technical_professionals_and_organizations/24

Is it not worth $3000? MIT brand..

Duncan

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Dec 07, 2011 02:31

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This is worth spending on- alumni status! http://web.mit.edu/professional/advanced-study/
This is worth spending on- alumni status! http://web.mit.edu/professional/advanced-study/

georgep

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Dec 09, 2011 01:48

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Duncan,
Is this one a vanity programme as well?

http://www.som.cranfield.ac.uk/som/p13750/Programmes-and-Executive-Development/OEP-Home/Programmes/Leadership/Cranfield-IT-leadership-Programme

Thanks.
Duncan,
Is this one a vanity programme as well?

http://www.som.cranfield.ac.uk/som/p13750/Programmes-and-Executive-Development/OEP-Home/Programmes/Leadership/Cranfield-IT-leadership-Programme

Thanks.

Duncan

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Dec 09, 2011 02:20

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I wouldn't say so: no certificate, after all ;-)
I wouldn't say so: no certificate, after all ;-)

_

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Dec 09, 2011 02:27

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George... for only 95000$ you can have this online :-)

http://sdm.mit.edu/
George... for only 95000$ you can have this online :-)

http://sdm.mit.edu/

Duncan

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Dec 09, 2011 08:48

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How about this Advanced Masters (certificate) from Tulane? Only $5K! http://www.tulaneu.com/online-certificate-programs/advanced-master-certificates.aspx

PS Hilarious! These are "for credit" on line courses, but even Tulane itself does not accept the credits! http://www.tulaneu.com/faq/#faq-4440
How about this Advanced Masters (certificate) from Tulane? Only $5K! http://www.tulaneu.com/online-certificate-programs/advanced-master-certificates.aspx

PS Hilarious! These are "for credit" on line courses, but even Tulane itself does not accept the credits! http://www.tulaneu.com/faq/#faq-4440

_

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Dec 09, 2011 08:41

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well.,.. Tulane is not as fashion as MIT ... :-)

Duncan, are there in Europe programs similar to http://lgo.mit.edu/ ?
well.,.. Tulane is not as fashion as MIT ... :-)

Duncan, are there in Europe programs similar to http://lgo.mit.edu/ ?

Duncan

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Dec 09, 2011 08:31

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That's the former "Leaders for Manufacturing" programme, which was part of the Cambridge-MIT deal. Look at http://www.ifm.eng.cam.ac.uk/ and the Zaragoza-MIT partnership.
That's the former "Leaders for Manufacturing" programme, which was part of the Cambridge-MIT deal. Look at http://www.ifm.eng.cam.ac.uk/ and the Zaragoza-MIT partnership.

_

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Dec 10, 2011 11:21

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thank you

By the way i don't understand how Zaragoza can offer a dual degree with IE or EBS.
It's like to sell Gucci and an unknown brand in the same shop...
thank you

By the way i don't understand how Zaragoza can offer a dual degree with IE or EBS.
It's like to sell Gucci and an unknown brand in the same shop...

georgep

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Dec 12, 2011 02:55

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I recently had chance to participate in an executives event in London. I used the chance to test the credibility of various schools by casual chat with senior exec people - mostly Brits.

My finding are really interesting ..

1. People have no clue of what MIT means
2. Business school means to them is LBS and HBS
3. Top university means to them is Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh.
4. Nearly none of them have a masters degree let alone MBA.
5. Very few have attended some short exec courses at LBS/CASS
5. The one's who have MBA have a great respect for LBS and Cranfield
6. Networking - "The single most skill" used in their success at every stage.
I recently had chance to participate in an executives event in London. I used the chance to test the credibility of various schools by casual chat with senior exec people - mostly Brits.

My finding are really interesting ..

1. People have no clue of what MIT means
2. Business school means to them is LBS and HBS
3. Top university means to them is Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh.
4. Nearly none of them have a masters degree let alone MBA.
5. Very few have attended some short exec courses at LBS/CASS
5. The one's who have MBA have a great respect for LBS and Cranfield
6. Networking - "The single most skill" used in their success at every stage.

donho199

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Dec 14, 2011 03:32

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Well, all I can draw from your story is that misinformation or stupidity does not help at all and so we should go our own ways and not drag ourselves down to misinformation
Well, all I can draw from your story is that misinformation or stupidity does not help at all and so we should go our own ways and not drag ourselves down to misinformation

georgep

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Dec 16, 2011 02:10

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I have no plan to start a "mine is bigger than yours" war. I was just surprised to hear a school that I admired from secondary school was unknown to few execs this side of Atlantic.

It is just a view from the section of exec's that I spoke to. I get the chance of getting close to the execs in the square mile, not many would get it or willing got share the "secrets of the senior guys". As you think it looks strange and misinformation but try speaking to a few and you will understand how less informed they are.

I have no intention of spreading any misinformation or promoting ideas here. The intention was to get views from different people and share experiences - well, that is the whole idea of a forum, isn't it? If I want to sell an idea/product I would use different powerful media.
I have no plan to start a "mine is bigger than yours" war. I was just surprised to hear a school that I admired from secondary school was unknown to few execs this side of Atlantic.

It is just a view from the section of exec's that I spoke to. I get the chance of getting close to the execs in the square mile, not many would get it or willing got share the "secrets of the senior guys". As you think it looks strange and misinformation but try speaking to a few and you will understand how less informed they are.

I have no intention of spreading any misinformation or promoting ideas here. The intention was to get views from different people and share experiences - well, that is the whole idea of a forum, isn't it? If I want to sell an idea/product I would use different powerful media.

Duncan

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Dec 19, 2011 11:28

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Mauro, also take a look at http://www.manufacturinginstitute.co.uk/text.asp?PageId=58
Mauro, also take a look at http://www.manufacturinginstitute.co.uk/text.asp?PageId=58

_

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Dec 19, 2011 01:39

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hi Duncan, thank you for the link
I noticed that the program is part-time... probably a very good choice for someone already into manufacturing.
hi Duncan, thank you for the link
I noticed that the program is part-time... probably a very good choice for someone already into manufacturing.

donho199

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Dec 19, 2011 02:12

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Yeah man this is really good, better and more rigorous than other programs you have looked at.

I would forego the Manchester brand for this solid academic portfolio

The only better choice is of course my favorite Edinburgh
Yeah man this is really good, better and more rigorous than other programs you have looked at.

I would forego the Manchester brand for this solid academic portfolio

The only better choice is of course my favorite Edinburgh

Duncan

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Dec 19, 2011 03:30

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Donho, you meant to post that at http://www.find-mba.com/board/23070/last/#last
Donho, you meant to post that at http://www.find-mba.com/board/23070/last/#last

mba hipster

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Feb 06, 2012 07:40

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To be fair, the programs you guys are talking about in this thread are "executive education" courses, rather than MBA programs. These are usually short classes that employees take to surgically improve specific skills (leadership, management, etc.) As opposed to MBA programs, companies often cover the costs so that their employees can perform better.

In terms of expectations and outcomes, they differ vastly from MBAs.
To be fair, the programs you guys are talking about in this thread are "executive education" courses, rather than MBA programs. These are usually short classes that employees take to surgically improve specific skills (leadership, management, etc.) As opposed to MBA programs, companies often cover the costs so that their employees can perform better.

In terms of expectations and outcomes, they differ vastly from MBAs.

_

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Feb 06, 2012 08:08

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Today I had a nice conversation with ZLOG at the online Economist fair..some highlights:
1) all students placed within 3 months from graduation
2) salary ranging from 21000e to 149000e mostly depending on past experience
3) Gmat between 575 and 735
4) avg age 29... 22min 50 max
5) who hires? Large companies, consulting firms, boutiques... start-ups
6) You receive a Master degree and a certificate from MIT
Today I had a nice conversation with ZLOG at the online Economist fair..some highlights:
1) all students placed within 3 months from graduation
2) salary ranging from 21000e to 149000e mostly depending on past experience
3) Gmat between 575 and 735
4) avg age 29... 22min 50 max
5) who hires? Large companies, consulting firms, boutiques... start-ups
6) You receive a Master degree and a certificate from MIT

Duncan

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Feb 06, 2012 08:52

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I wonder what the average salary is? Who is the masters degree awarded by?
I wonder what the average salary is? Who is the masters degree awarded by?

_

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Feb 06, 2012 08:52

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"ZLOG's degree is granted by the University of Zaragoza. MIT also issues a certificate upon completion of the program but it it not an MIT degree"
"ZLOG's degree is granted by the University of Zaragoza. MIT also issues a certificate upon completion of the program but it it not an MIT degree"

_

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Feb 06, 2012 08:10

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"The average median salary upon graduation for last years' class was $111,000"
The level of salary was often dictated by level of prior professional experience, as well as location.
[20:55:18] MIT MIT: by the way, that's a 75% increase over the incoming class' salary
"The average median salary upon graduation for last years' class was $111,000"
The level of salary was often dictated by level of prior professional experience, as well as location.
[20:55:18] MIT MIT: by the way, that's a 75% increase over the incoming class' salary

_

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Feb 08, 2012 07:41

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Hi,
next Monday I ll have a talk with the program manager of the ZLOG program (Actually I m not interested but she was so kind ...:-)
If someone of you have any questions, please let me know!
Hi,
next Monday I ll have a talk with the program manager of the ZLOG program (Actually I m not interested but she was so kind ...:-)
If someone of you have any questions, please let me know!

Duncan

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Feb 08, 2012 10:10

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If its not too naive a question.... Why is the average salary so much higher than that of MBAs in Spain? Any hypothesis?
If its not too naive a question.... Why is the average salary so much higher than that of MBAs in Spain? Any hypothesis?

_

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Feb 08, 2012 10:19

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i ve got the answer.... The average I was given yesterday is the MIT SCM avg!!!!

http://scm.mit.edu/recruitment/placement_statistics

For ZLOG, official website says
http://mastersupplychain.edu.es/careers/placement

Actually, those results are not much different from IE (as from their brochure)

80% of students had one or more job offers by graduation
Average compensation package: 69.000 ($99,000)
50% changed country of residence from before the program
i ve got the answer.... The average I was given yesterday is the MIT SCM avg!!!!

http://scm.mit.edu/recruitment/placement_statistics

For ZLOG, official website says
http://mastersupplychain.edu.es/careers/placement

Actually, those results are not much different from IE (as from their brochure)

80% of students had one or more job offers by graduation
Average compensation package: €69.000 ($99,000)
50% changed country of residence from before the program

Sparks

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Feb 09, 2012 11:02

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I wouldn't say so: no certificate, after all ;-)


Very true about the certificate! It's a shame to see MIT creating an academic-looking certificate for a non-examined course.

If it was an academic credit-bearing course, earned through examination or dissertation, then certification seems fair to me.

To be fair, the programs you guys are talking about in this thread are "executive education" courses, rather than MBA programs. These are usually short classes that employees take to surgically improve specific skills (leadership, management, etc.) As opposed to MBA programs, companies often cover the costs so that their employees can perform better.

In terms of expectations and outcomes, they differ vastly from MBAs.


Yes, exactly right. Most of these don't have certificates that look like faux qualifications. They look good on a CV for what they are: training in a specific area.

I recently had chance to participate in an executives event in London. I used the chance to test the credibility of various schools by casual chat with senior exec people - mostly Brits.

My finding are really interesting ..

1. People have no clue of what MIT means
2. Business school means to them is LBS and HBS
3. Top university means to them is Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh.
4. Nearly none of them have a masters degree let alone MBA.
5. Very few have attended some short exec courses at LBS/CASS
5. The one's who have MBA have a great respect for LBS and Cranfield
6. Networking - "The single most skill" used in their success at every stage.



My experience is the same as this. Many senior managers have risen through the ranks without an MBA. Very high fliers may not have needed an MBA, if their career was progressing rapidly. And if you've never considered doing an MBA, how would you be expected to know about business school rankings?
<blockquote>I wouldn't say so: no certificate, after all ;-)</blockquote>

Very true about the certificate! It's a shame to see MIT creating an academic-looking certificate for a non-examined course.

If it was an academic credit-bearing course, earned through examination or dissertation, then certification seems fair to me.

<blockquote>To be fair, the programs you guys are talking about in this thread are "executive education" courses, rather than MBA programs. These are usually short classes that employees take to surgically improve specific skills (leadership, management, etc.) As opposed to MBA programs, companies often cover the costs so that their employees can perform better.

In terms of expectations and outcomes, they differ vastly from MBAs.</blockquote>

Yes, exactly right. Most of these don't have certificates that look like faux qualifications. They look good on a CV for what they are: training in a specific area.

<blockquote>I recently had chance to participate in an executives event in London. I used the chance to test the credibility of various schools by casual chat with senior exec people - mostly Brits.

My finding are really interesting ..

1. People have no clue of what MIT means
2. Business school means to them is LBS and HBS
3. Top university means to them is Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh.
4. Nearly none of them have a masters degree let alone MBA.
5. Very few have attended some short exec courses at LBS/CASS
5. The one's who have MBA have a great respect for LBS and Cranfield
6. Networking - "The single most skill" used in their success at every stage.

</blockquote>

My experience is the same as this. Many senior managers have risen through the ranks without an MBA. Very high fliers may not have needed an MBA, if their career was progressing rapidly. And if you've never considered doing an MBA, how would you be expected to know about business school rankings?

vivekd

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Feb 09, 2012 11:27

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Exactly
Exactly

vivekd

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Feb 09, 2012 11:52

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And if you've never considered doing an MBA, how would you be expected to know about business school rankings?

Exactly. You hit the right spot. Business schools are a business sector themselves, ranking only makes sense to their target customers who are students, academics, trainers, admission consultants, few consultancies who rent their "consultants" to their customers based on brands/ranks.

I am sure I sparked a "huge fire" here and ready to listen people view :-)
<blockquote>And if you've never considered doing an MBA, how would you be expected to know about business school rankings? </blockquote>
Exactly. You hit the right spot. Business schools are a business sector themselves, ranking only makes sense to their target customers who are students, academics, trainers, admission consultants, few consultancies who rent their "consultants" to their customers based on brands/ranks.

I am sure I sparked a "huge fire" here and ready to listen people view :-)

mba hipster

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Feb 10, 2012 06:15

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Yes, exactly right. Most of these don't have certificates that look like faux qualifications. They look good on a CV for what they are: training in a specific area.

And also, these certificate programs are often paid for by employers. They realize that they're valuable in terms of helping their employees develop specific skills. This is much different from MBA programs, which are usually paid for by individuals rather than companies.
<blockquote>Yes, exactly right. Most of these don't have certificates that look like faux qualifications. They look good on a CV for what they are: training in a specific area.</blockquote>
And also, these certificate programs are often paid for by employers. They realize that they're valuable in terms of helping their employees develop specific skills. This is much different from MBA programs, which are usually paid for by individuals rather than companies.

Feb 11, 2012 03:46

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Any one looking for International MBA (1 year duration)
Any one looking for International MBA (1 year duration)

_

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Feb 15, 2012 05:45

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Hi,
next Monday I ll have a talk with the program manager of the ZLOG program (Actually I m not interested but she was so kind ...:-)
If someone of you have any questions, please let me know!


Requirements:
GMAT: not a mininum requirement but avg is 680-690
TOEFL: >103ibt
Loan: full loan with no co-signer for international students

People with IT background often end up in project management positions (or consultants)
Several companies go to campus
Oppurtunity to benefit from network and companies linked to MIT
<blockquote>Hi,
next Monday I ll have a talk with the program manager of the ZLOG program (Actually I m not interested but she was so kind ...:-)
If someone of you have any questions, please let me know!
</blockquote>

Requirements:
GMAT: not a mininum requirement but avg is 680-690
TOEFL: >103ibt
Loan: full loan with no co-signer for international students

People with IT background often end up in project management positions (or consultants)
Several companies go to campus
Oppurtunity to benefit from network and companies linked to MIT

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